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Topic: Part 1: Determining Inactivity and Re-Activation
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Okay, I know that we're starting this up a bit early but the general consensus seems to be that everyone is okay with following the steps I proposed.

Step one of the proposed plan is as follows:

Tech_Paradox posted:

1. Establish the method of pruning the member list of inactive members (barring revote) and then enact said method.</quote>

To that end, this thread will be dedicated to debate regarding the method of determining inactivity, possible notification of inactivity, possible levels of inactivity, and re-activation requirements should levels of inactivity be enacted.

<quote by="[P]aradox">
I propose that if someone hasn't posted at /gamespy in one month, he's inactive. If he doesn't post more than three times in as many months, he's inactive. If he misses a month of voting or six votes, he's inactive.


I'm fine with this. In fact, it seems lenient. My question would then be does Inactive = Out of the Clan or does Inactive = On Probationary Status?

To that end, I feel that Inactive should be a Probationary Status. When placed on Inactive status, the member will be notified via the e-mail they registered at the clan site and via PM to their Gamespy Forum account. If one remains on Inactive status for three months, they are out of the clan. To be removed from inactive status, the member must immediately resume posting and voting. After said member's posts and votes have been verified, they will be removed from Inactive status and placed back in Active status.

This requires a bit more work from the website maintenance team (all one of him!) and from the forum moderators, but I feel that it is more than fair.

Basically this would result in all of the "old guard" who haven't done crap in the last god-knows-how-many months being dropped to inactive status. Come April (should this be enacted immediately) they would be stripped of member status and removed from the clan.

Discussion?

 

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In Reply To #1

One change: I'm fine with people going on probation after inactivity, but I think to become an active member again they should have to be active for a certain period of time, like a month. So that you can't be an inactive member and suddenly start posting so you can vote on an issue or initiate tomorrow.

 

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In Reply To #2

I got to thinking about that on the way home from work after I posted... someone could just yo-yo back and forth between active and inactive. I agree that a one-month activity period should be required before full reinstatement to Active is allowed. Given that one month's worth of activity would be required before the member could vote again, then would the votes done in that month not count against the non-voting clause?

 

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In Reply To #3

Inactive == no voting privileges.

 

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In Reply To #4

Yeah, that makes sense. My question is that when they try to go back to Active from Inactive do the votes they miss while in the limbo stage count against them? Or do we need a third group between the other two, like Probation?

e.g.:

* Active = Actively posting and voting. Full priveliges and voting ability.

* Probation = Was previously inactive. Must show one month's worth of posting activity before being returned to Active status. No voting priveliges. If activity is not maintained, will be put back on Inactive status. Missed votes while on Probation do not count against the member.

* Inactive = Has not posted in at least one month OR Has missed one month's worth of elections/has not voted in the past six elections. No voting priveleges. Will be removed from clan rolls if inactive for three months.

Does that make sense or am I off-base?

 

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I agree with all of this except the amount of time that a person can stay inactive. I think it's too long and that one month of inactivity is more than enough to justify being booted. That's a total of two months without a word and that's a long damn time. Keeping in mind that if the person in question returns they can always apply again (assuming that enough people want to sponsor them or maybe returning members can be given a one time pass around the sponsorship rule? thinking out loud here...)

I would also like to add that if a person knows they will be gone for a long time they can say so and be put on the inactive list but not booted. This is assuming they would be gone longer than the amount of time it would normally take to be kicked and that they return after the amount of time they say they will. If they say they will be gone for three months hiking through the jungle then they would be safe for three months though after that they get the boot.

Did any of that make sense?

 


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<orange>I agree mostly, but I'll be the first to mention I'd like to see /gsf posts count as well. It's our own forum and should count for activity. If not... Well, that'd mean I'll be booted from the clan soon. And it sounds ridiculous that I could just post on /gamespy once a month ("Here's my monthly post, see you back in /gsf!"), just to stay in the clan. That's what I'd do, if I won't forget.</orange>

 

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I believe 'posting' at /gamespy should be defined better. This way, a person can crash in once a month, post "Yeah" or "LELELELELE" and be gone for another month.

Something like posts on at least 3 days containing some added value. I assume the first could be easily automated, the "added value" part would have to be brought forward by someone.

Perhaps a monthly thread about the clan status would work here. With respect to that, I believe that the [GSF] Clan Business should be closed for non-members if possible. This would allow to bring such things forward and discuss initiates in private.

 

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CoyoteExile posted:

maybe returning members can be given a one time pass around the sponsorship rule?


I'm inclined to oppose this... a returning member should have no trouble whatsoever getting sponsorship, unless they burned their bridges on the way out or were undesirable members in the first place. If the clan wants you back, it's as good as a free pass anyway. Why give someone the headache of keeping track of who's used their get out of jail free card?

 

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In Reply To #6
CoyoteExile posted:

I agree with all of this except the amount of time that a person can stay inactive. I think it's too long and that one month of inactivity is more than enough to justify being booted. That's a total of two months without a word and that's a long damn time. Keeping in mind that if the person in question returns they can always apply again (assuming that enough people want to sponsor them or maybe returning members can be given a one time pass around the sponsorship rule? thinking out loud here...)


Agreed. It looks to me like the best system is:
One month without posting or voting = on Inactive List
One month on Inactive List = Removed
Anyone who's Inactive can't vote on new members.

I'm sure those times could be debated a bit, but one month for both is nice and simple. Actually, I'd be keen for it to be even reduced further: two weeks for each, for example.

My only fear is that old and 'inactive' members will get used to making one or two posts every couple of months, and be able to stay in the clan. That's hardly 'activity', which is why I'm inclined to think a shorter duration (like my suggested total four weeks) is better. Or possibly just have the one month limit, and then no 'inactive period' at all; once you're inactive, that's it, you're gone. Two months may be a lot shorter than the six months or whatever it was when we started discussing this, but it still seems a bit too long to me.

As for what counts as 'activity': no to IRC, as previously mentioned. Yes to posts here, on /gsf, but we should really try to promote posting on /gamespy as well, for obvious reasons.

And on re-applying: any ex-member who wishes to re-apply should do so through the normal process (yet to be arranged), with no special priviliges. And obviously, they will be expected to be more active than they were before they were kicked out.

 


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Terraxos posted:

Agreed. It looks to me like the best system is:
One month without posting or voting = on Inactive List
One month on Inactive List = Removed



One note: if things are done this way, the amount of inactive time that leads to removal must be larger than the amount of time necessary to recover active status. If it's the same amount of time, you would have to begin recovering your active status immediately upon going inactive or face automatic removal.

 

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In Reply To #11:

Well, I don't really like the idea of a third period of posting time needed for inactive members to return to active status. I'd prefer it so that one post or vote from an inactive member simply resets the clock and makes them 'active' again. That's why I favour such short lengths of time for inactivity, so people can't stay in the clan by making one post every two months or something like that.

One more thing, continuing from fett's comment on the 'Cutting out the dead wood' thread: I'd also prefer to change the initial method of judging inactivity so it's simply one month (or however long) without any posts or votes, not missing six votes in a row. As fett pointed out, that could lead to an unfortunate situation where six people apply at once, a bunch of people miss the votes and get dumped. Unlikely, but we don't want it to happen - a time-based system seems better.

Obviously everything I'm proposing here is up for debate - I'm just trying to offer some suggestions which I think would work well for reforming the clan.

 


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We seem to be up against three sticking points - length of time allowable on Inactive before removal, required posts to remain active, and time versus number of votes missed in consideration for inactive status.

Which is okay - the whole point of this thread is to debate and find something that is agreeable to all of us.

Taco brings up a good point in that it would be difficult for someone to get back on Active status if we cut the time allowable on Inactive down to a month. My original suggestion of three months seems to be too long for most people, so I say we split the difference. They get two months on Inactive before they get the boot. This would be more than enough time, as it would mean that we haven't heard a peep out of them in over three months and it would also give them enough time to get their butt in gear and start posting again.

As for the time/missed votes issue, we run into voter apathy on this one. If we make it strictly time-based, one could (in theory) not vote in the elections for initiates they don't care about in a given month, effectively negating the reason for removing the Neutral vote. Given that votes are open for two weeks, we all have more than enough time to get in and vote. Hell, even checking the clan site once a week would give you more than enough time. I mean, voting takes like two seconds (so long as you dont have to re-request your password to get back in to the site), so there's no reason why someone who wants to remain active should miss multiple votes in a given month. This brings up another sticking point with me - Six votes in a row leads us back to the apathy issue again. One could vote for an initiate, ignore a second initiate, and then vote for the third without fear of repercussion. I say make it six votes in a month.

With regards to the posting requirements: I will agree that Spam posts (e.g. "Yeah!", "Me too!", etc.) should not count towards activity. To count, posts should have at least some substance to them, be it actually contributing to the thread, taunting another forumer, or what have you. As for minimum number of posts... come on, guys - there has to be at least one thread in any given month that interests you enough to post at least once in it. Hell, I've been finding at least one a week in the Lobby alone.

 

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In Reply To #13

I say go stricter and make it one month on inactive before they get the boot, and two weeks of posting to gain active status again.

 

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Tech_Paradox posted:

come on, guys - there has to be at least one thread in any given month that interests you enough to post at least once in it.


While this is not necessarily true, the solution is to make interesting topics if none exist, a la the old revitalizing the forums scheme. If membership requirements help enforce this plan, I'm all for it.

 

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Another matter is when a person gives notice of their absence in advance.

Even though they tell you beforehand that they won't be around for 4-5 months because of X reason (E.g Schoolwork, work family issues), will they still get kicked out of the clan?

 

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