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Topic: Part 1: Determining Inactivity and Re-Activation
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In Reply To #61

This was addressed in Removal: 1,b,ii but it is apparently missable, so I have added it in to the subsection in the latest revision.

The latest revision also bumps up the initiate vote "yes" requirement to 75%. I'm honestly indifferent either way, but we can try it at the higher percentage for a while to see if it works. When it comes right down to it, a 75% isn't out of the question with everyone voting...

<strike>I'm having a bit of trouble with the inactivity due to voting section. the verbage is currently:

i. Minimum voting activity shall be defined as voting in every initiate election presented. Missing a total of six votes in one month or missing one full month's worth of votes (should there be less than six votes in a given month) shall constitute Inactivity.

which gives someone the chance to sneak in not voting in a month with less than six initiates - hypothetically, they could vote for one out of the five and skip the rest with no fear of repercussion. I'm not sure how to close this loophole, so we may just have to leave it :/</strike>

EDIT: Nevermind... I was kinda brain-fried when I wrote that. If we give up to six misses in a month with a lot of initiates, we should give up to four in a month with fewer...

[added Feb 25 2005 6:20AM]

New revision time, folks!

http://www.effingham.net/techparadox/gsf_bylaws_v05.zip

once again, please read it over and comment. I'm thinking with a few more minor tweaks we can put this to the clan as a whole for ratification....

 

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In Reply To #62
Ohhhhhh... *humps Tech_Paradox*

However, I notice NOTHING about a 'No Llamas' rule.
Sometimes, I don't think you people take me seriously anymore!


 

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In Reply To #62

Looking pretty good.

 

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In Reply To #62:

Looks pretty good to me... my only criticisms are minor ones, and even if they aren't changed, this version of the document would be acceptable to me. Nonetheless, since you ask, I'll mention them:

ITEM: Removal from the clan
When I brought up the subject of the different rules applying to members up for revote as for new initiates, and specifically the different voting requirements, you replied, "I adjusted this to be more in line with initiate voting." Well, it doesn't look that way to me:
the bylaws posted:
6. The revote of both parties shall then occur, following the same rules as an initiate vote.
a. On a majority "Yes", the member shall be retained and remain in good standing.
b. Failing to achieve a majority "Yes", the member shall be removed from the clan and summarily loses all clan rights and privileges.</quote>
The words 'a majority "Yes" imply that it's possible to win a revote simply by gaining more 'yes' votes than 'no' votes. My understanding, which I think I made clear earlier, is that winning a revote should require the same proportion of votes as are needed to get into the clan - i.e., at least three-quarters 'yes' votes. If you have changed the rules as I suggested, this could be made clearer - perhaps by removing the words 'a majority "Yes"' and replacing them with 'at least three-fourths "Yes" votes'.

ITEM: Activity
I have one more minor criticism here, relating to this section:
<quote by="the bylaws">2. A member shall be required to post a minimum of one time per month in any non-RPG forum at the main GameSpy forums, with the preferred forums being Gaming Discussion and The Lobby.
a. If a member is unable to find any topics that interest him, he shall create a new topic for discussion.
b. The member's post(s)/topic(s) must not be spam and must have useful content or contribute to the thread in which it is posted.

The potential problem here lies with point b, and the regulation that posts and topics made by [GSF] members for purposes of calculating (in)activity 'must not be spam' and 'must have useful content'. Essentially, the problem is that both 'spam' and 'useful content' can be hard to define, and it is plausible that we could have a situation where it's unclear whether a certain member has made any posts containing 'useful content' or good contributions to threads in a given month. The bylaws imply that in such a situation, responsibility for making the decision on whether a member has made useful posts or not would lie with the moderators whose task it is to examine members' activity each month.

My complaint here is that this is too much of a 'grey area' to be left to moderators, or even a single moderator, to decide, and because of the potential problems that could arise (e.g. someone being classed as Inactive just because one moderator decides they have made no useful contributions that month, while they and others disagree), I would suggest that rule 2b be removed. In my opinion, Inactivity should be reserved strictly for those members who are actually inactive, i.e. not posting and/or voting. Those who are posting, but are just posting spam or adding nothing useful to discussions, should be dealt with differently: they are clearly active, but they can (and should) be removed by being put up for revote instead.

This solution would have a number of benefits: firstly, it would lessen the workload of moderators, who would only have to identify whether any specific member has posted in a given month, rather than examining the contents of all their posts for usefulness, contribution and spam quality, to see whether they meet the guidelines of rule 2b. Secondly, it would mean that in such a situation as I have described, the whole clan can have an opportunity to examine the member's posts, and they can decide for themselves whether they think s/he has made enough appropriate posts to remain in the clan, and vote accordingly, rather than leaving this decision to one moderator. Thirdly, it would make 'inactivity' much easier to define: it would simply be the lack of posting and/or voting, rather than the lack of posting useful content, which as I hope I've shown is possibly hard to pin down.

So, the point of this rather long argument is: I would suggest that point 2b of the Activity ITEM be removed, and anybody who would have been classed as 'inactive' under that law should be dealt with via a revote instead.

 


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parena  1051 posts
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<orange>Just a small note: to make it easier for moderators/admins to determine activity, I might be able to whip up a little script that takes every member from the database, fetches their profile url for /gamespy and parses the page to check for their latest posts/topics. That way, you can get a list of members that haven't posted in the previous month. Or something like that. This'll require us to put all member /gamespy profile links in the GSF database. Might give more advantages later, being able to link a GSF member to his profile.</orange>

[added Feb 26 2005 7:12PM]

here's a first version of the script
<orange>Added: I must be out of my mind. It's past 04:00 AM and I just finished a first script to check forum activity.

The script uses a few member profiles, fetches them, parses them and gives some status. Here's a few problems with it, though:

- it can only check the current month, 'coz forumplanet profiles only have last 10 topics and replies. So if you run it after a few hours on the 1st of the month, people could have made 10 posts in the NEW month and you won't see posts of the previous month. Perhaps I could let the script run on the first of every month, at midnight or so forumplanet time, but it's tough 'coz the server of forumplanet is in a different timezone. I might figure something out.
- doesn't work with Dec/Jan (year changes) yet
- it's slow

I could do it so that when the script runs, it emails results to some addresses, or the sorts. We'll see, this is just a first version, of course.</orange>

[added Feb 26 2005 7:15PM]

<orange>Added: Just noticed there's a 9 hour time difference, so I could let the script run at 9:00 am parena.net time on the first of the month.</orange>

 

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In Reply To #65

This is correct, it is required on a revote to get the same percentage as it takes initiates to get in. If neither party gets it then they both go, if both get it then both stay and if only one gets it that one stays.

 


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parena  1051 posts
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<orange>About the script again: silly me, I could just have the script do it's thing every day. It'd check if there were topics/replies today. If so, the member has passed for this week. If not, it'll check again the next day, etc. WOOT!</orange>

 

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hokay, kiddiez - latest revision, all nice and virginal, ready for the deflowering. Have at it:

http://www.effingham.net/techparadox/gsf_bylaws_v06.zip

Major changes:

- adjusted the revote section to explicitly define the 3/4 majority required.
- removed the line about spam in the activity section.

 

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In Reply To #69
WHERE'S MY LLAMA RULE!?!?!

 

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In Reply To #69

I had no idea [GSF] was so full of boring shit.

 

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In Reply To #71

I thought that's what the S stood for?

 

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In Reply To #71
Well to be fair, Tech_Paradox is the boring shit.

I'm lazy shit.

Parena's grumpy shit.

And you're, errr...... Sleepy shit? No... that's not right...

 

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In Reply To #71

It's not so much that it's full of boring shit, it's just that no one has ever taken time to write down all the boring shit so we can refer to it later...

 

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parena  1051 posts
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<orange>I'd just like to note: for initiates it says 3/4th of the total vote. This does mean that there is NO default vote, right? At the beginning of each vote an initiate has a total of 0 votes. If there's a default of no, there's no way of tracking member votes. However: should there be a minimum % of votes? Say 60% of the clan has to vote for the voting to be legit? If only 50% votes at all (even if it's 100% Yes), it shouldn't count. Or perhaps other %, but you get the idea.

Same goes for member revotes, though in the doc it doesn't explicitly say "3/4th of the total vote", just 3/4th. It does say "same as the initiates", so that should cover it.</orange>

 

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In Reply To #75

That's a good idea. What happens if the vote is invalidated due to lack of votes? Is it just a rejection (re-up again in a month if you can get sponsor), or do they get a second shot at it since there was a slump in voting activity?

 

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GameSpy Forums » Legacy GameSpy Forums » [GSF] Clan Business Part 1: Determining Inactivity and ...
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