Back in History class in 1988/1989 when I was 13, I was told that the girl that sat in the front of my row of seats liked me. This was a lie, and when I asked her out the whole class laughed at me for even trying. I don't even remember her name.

When I was 16 I shared some looks with a girl in my driver's education class. I asked her out, and she said yes. We agreed upon a date, and she stood me up. Rumor was that she has a friend drive her by where I was waiting to laugh at me.

During summer vacation after that incident I was working at the local grocery store down the street. I would eat lunch at the pizza place across the street (then named The Pizza Place), or the McDonalds across the parking lot. I was friendly with the girl behind the counter. We were the same age, had shared classes in school, and apparently enjoyed each others company well enough. I asked her out, she said yes, and gave me a fake phone number.

When I was 17 I was on the fencing team. I asked out the one girl that was also on the same school bus as me. When she said no, she did so politely, and gave me a reason as to why. Finally some decency in being declined, but still declined, none the less.

I started my next job on my 19th birthday in September of 1994, and got half the night off. Yippee! A couple months later I was about to ask out a fellow employee, but while I was trying to steer the conversation in the right direction she mentioned a boyfriend, and that was that.

On Tuesday, December 20th of that same year I left early, sick and crying uncontrollably. It took me an hour to make the 25 minute drive home (I had to pull over twice just to cry and convulse). I slept for 18 hours straight, and skipped school the next day. Back at work on Thursday the 22, I met this young Asian woman that was helping me in my department. I asked her out jokingly while on break the next day, and seriously on Christmas eve. We hung out on Wednesday the 28th, and went on our official first date on New Years day. It was a double date with her best friend. The girls made their guys spaghetti, and we watched two movies (Willow and Maverick). My date left to pick up her brother somewhere, and I was forced to wait with the other guy for nearly an hour while he hogged the gameboy. After they got back, her friend and other guy left, and I had my first kiss. My adrenaline dumped and I started to shiver uncontrollably. I left her house at 4:00am. I got her topless the next week. She got fired, we broke up for a week, got back together again, and finally had sex on Valentines day, 1995. It was a Tuesday morning. I screwed it up.

We were on again off again over the next 9 months. I could tell you the dates of all 7 times we did it, but I'm not in the mood. She broke up with me a total of four times, and I kept going back for more.

I got into a band with one employee's son, that started dating my ex, so I had him kicked out of the band, and then when I left a year later they broke up ;)

In 1997, the other guitarist of that band set me up on a blind date with someone he was going to school with (I had seen her at some get together supposedly, but didn't meet her). We went on a date with the friend that set us up and his cousin (not my rules) on Monday, June 9th. My friend went to the men's room, and I asked her if she was graduating high school with him (he was 18, I was 21), to which she replied, "I'm going to be a junior next year. I'm only 16." The date was pretty much over for me at that point. It went on for another two hours, but I had checked out and don't remember much of anything that happened after that.

I asked out a few women over the coming years, getting turned down at every attempt.

In December 2003 I started being friendly with the waitress where I ate lunch. I almost asked her out in January of 2004 when I found out she had a daughter, and then gave up on her. Then I fell for her again. In October, after a discussion about how I hadn't been to Six Flags Great Adventure since 1995 (with the ex girlfriend), she invited me with her daughter, coworker, and another friend. We all had fun. I asked her out the next day and she turned me down. She had her reasons, but I still felt crushed about that one. When I saw her with an engagement ring on her finger I stopped eating there for years.

In June of 2006 (I checked my Live Journal entry for that one) I asked out a waitress at Pizza Hut waitress (she was 18, I was 31). She was complaining about how her boyfriend had broken up with her, while leaving her station to sit next to me and put her hand on my thigh. Begging to be asked out doesn't get much more overt than that. she said yes, but then got back together with her ex by the end of the week.

I went to Las Vegas with my father and his friend for a poker tournament at Binions in November of 2007 from the 2nd to the 5th. Other people we knew there for the same event tried to pick me up a hooker while we were there, but I'm not into that. I bumped into one of the women of the group, and I got the feeling that she wanted to hook up, but couldn't close the deal at that time. I later found out it was because she thought I was sharing a room with my father (I always get my own room because I snore too loudly). After returning from Vegas I did hook up with her after our weekly poker game on Tuesday, November 6th, and had sex for the first time in 12 years the next morning. It was the worst sex I ever had. I chalked half of that up to travel sickness (my blood pressure was all screwed up), as well as my back giving out. I took her out on a date the next Friday, November 17th, and found out how crazy she was, and realized things would never work out.

This summer I asked out a waitress where I eat lunch. She took it well, but never really responded to me about it...

And then I asked out my former mechanic's daughter last month. She said yes, and then was busy for two weeks, and then went on a two week vacation with her parents. Two more weeks after she was supposed to get back she won't return my calls...

TL:DR

I fail at women.

I'm going to be brutally honest here GP, because I've known you for a while (or really, I knew you, then I didn't for ages, and now we're on a forum again. But it feels like a while).

If you don't want to read someone being brutal, then stop right about here.



Yes, you do.

But it's mainly because you're treating women as some sort of "pass / fail" scenario. Like there's some sort of cheat code you could figure out and then you'd be in her knickers.

Women, by and large, are people.

That means they can probably sense that you're incredibly desperate when you ask them out; humans are pretty empathic like that.

That results in one or both of the following: pity and repulsion.

It's that combination that makes a probably quite nice girl say "yes I'll go out with you" when she has no intention of doing so, and then search for a way to get out of it (or just stand you up). It probably feels nicer than just saying "I'm not at all interested in you".

The only way to completely get over the desperation bit is to have some success with women, but it will help if you relax about it and realise that the people you're asking out are nervous and embarrassed as well (whether they say yes or no).

And also remember that you're asking someone out to do one specific thing (usually "have a pleasant evening"). You might hope it turns into sex, or a full blown relationship - but that's not what asking someone out leads to. That's what dating someone ultimately leads to, maybe, if you get on well enough. Don't put any additional pressure on asking someone out, or the first date, than you should be

(it adds to the aura of desperation if it comes across that you're asking someone for a relationship right off the bat)

-

One thing you do a lot is befriend a girl before asking her out.

This might look like a natural thing to do - quite a few people seem to enter into relationships with former friends.

But it has to be a natural progression; two friends realising they're attracted to each other. It doesn't work if you try to artificially create it.

If you're entering in a friendship with a girl under false pretences (i.e. you want more than friendship but you aren't telling her yet), then when you DO tell her, it reveals that the entire friendship is a lie. Which is a bit creepy (or just sad - either way, it's not attractive).

This is particularly exacerbated if you're waiting months to do this.

If you're attracted to someone, you need to tell her. You can't persuade someone to like you just by being nice to her - either she likes you back, or she doesn't. That isn't going to change, no matter how long you give it.



On the other end of the scale are women you barely know.

Unless you're stunningly attractive, then you aren't going to get many positive responses just by asking random women out. It's something you can try, but don't be surprised when a lot of them say 'no' to the strange man asking them out on a date.

It helps if you're at least a bit friendly with the woman in question, or you're in a social situation.

This might seem like the opposite of the bit I just said about pretending to be friends, but friendly isn't the same as friends.

The other important thing to remember is that the woman in question needs to be interested in you. She needs to find you attractive, or funny, or interesting (or all three), at least a bit.

That means don't target women who are far and away more attractive than you. Or women who you have nothing in common with.

But that also means you need to be attractive (and yes, you can be), you need to be entertaining (you already have hobbies and interests, you don't need to manufacture an interest to meet women - but you do need to be interested in the things you care about, because you need to be able to chat).

Ultimately it means be realistic.

Notice that your successes with women have been when you have asked out those who showed an interest in you.



Sex is sometimes bad, or mediocre. More so when you're drunk, inexperienced or nervous. Or one of you is in a bad mood. Or any number of other reasons.

Expect it to happen. But don't let the intensity of sex turn you into an emotional, agonised wreck - just laugh about it with your partner. Sex is also pretty silly, even at the best of times. And, fortunately, it's something you can always improve upon (and the practice is fun).

A massive monologue about relationships with women and the word 'love' is not in there once? I know it necessitates a mutual understanding but it does prod at Dave's point that women aren't some accomplishment. The best ones hit you when you're not looking (but you still need to be out).

Perhaps I'll put together a more thorough reply later, but Dave hit a lot of it.

The biggest hurdle is usually self love (not masturbation). You can't expect to be loved if you cannot love yourself. Feel great about who you are, on your terms, and people start to flock. Present and carry yourself the way you deserve and you'll get what you deserve.

And remember, a man never looks better than he does in a suit.

1) Guys get rejected 90% of the time.

2) Screw the be friends first BS. My best three relationships all started out as 1 or 2 dates then f buddies, THEN a relationship when we found out we could be friends too. pour on the charm/mystery/sensitivity at first, don't let the conversation turn to boring friend stuff.

3) Cast a wide net. It sounds like you're waiting a year or multiple months before asking a girl out. Ask girls out constantly until you find one interested in you.

4) Try online dating sites.

5) Seriously ask the girl out within like an hour of meeting her max, she needs to know your intentions before she puts you in the friend/lame duck zone. Make her laugh once, tell her something about her is very pretty and after she reacts favorably see if she wants to get some lunch with you.

^Advice from a guy who had a threesome saturday and alternated sleeping with those two women each day this week.

Definitely don't diss dating sites. I don't have any personal experience on this front (I cheated by living in Japan for 3 years), but one of my good friends from my uni days in the last couple of years has had quite a few girl friends and to be blunt he's definitely average in looks and very overweight. He's now married.

Dating sites are great for 2 reasons:
1. Good sites will asking you a bazillion questions and at the end of registration they will automatically create a matching profile, which then you can go and tweak. Good because it paints an accurate description of who you are and your interests. Like-minded people will seek you out, and if you do meet up for a date you can be certain you have a lot in common from the get-go and can easily transition into a fun conversation for both parties.
2. It takes the hard part out of the equation - actually having to go out and mingle with a lot of misses. Sure you're also bound to miss using this method, but you're more likely to hit.

You will most certainly surprise yourself if you join a dating site like the one I described.

In Reply To #1

No this is not waffles... I was expecting pancakes at least.

I've only been in a handfull of relationships, but most of which were longer in term. I still talk with all my ex's on a regular basis. The best thing I read out of all of these responces is that girlz is peoplez too. Very important to keep in mind, people aren't always good, or bad, or intrested, people are vastly diffrent and people change.

My ex wife planned a going away party for me so she could keep me busy while she slept with someone else. She was my high school sweetheart, we had been together for six years, and we have a kid together. We started dateing because I saw her crying at school one day and I didn't like to see her that way. So I stole her shoe off her foot and made her chase me to get it back. Eh, shit happens. Wasn't all her fault, I can admit that. We are still freinds because I know she's people.

The new lady is Incredible, and all I did was fix her laptop. She repayed me with dinner. We are about to celebrate five years together. That includes two years spent apart while I was in Iraq, then Afghanistan. She is a Harley riding, roller derby skating, bread and cookie baking ball of awesome. We met because I did somethign nice for her, just to do something nice. Thats it, same with the ex wife.

Just be yourself, be happy with who you are, do nice things, and don't expect anything in return.

Or not, its your life.

Edit: Thanks for shareing either way.

Just a couple of quick points, as I don't really want to argue this. I just wanted to put it out there and see what people said.

1. Dave is right about me being desperate.

2. I screwed up Valentines day, not the sex. I wasn't romantic enough. I was too immature for that part of my life.

3. These are not all of the women I have asked out, just the important ones that left a mark on my psyche.I do have long bits between asking women out. I make a move when one returns my smile. Most women look at me with disdain when they see me smile. There was also a period in my early 20s where every female I met was either married or underage. NOTHING that I could even consider for anything.

4. I have known this last woman for 5 years. Her father used to be my mechanic, and she works for her father. We have flirted a lot, and I let her know a few years ago that I was interested, but she let me know that she didn't date customers. They moved shop and I am no longer a customer. She has been flirting with me heavily, giving me every signal that she was interested. Asking her out should have happened several months ago. Her saying yes wasn't a surprise. I spoke to her a couple of times on the phone since then. Her disappearing for the last two weeks was the surprise.

5. Waffles are the standard. Pancakes can't stack up.

6. I have tried online dating. I can't get past the the third email. I don't usually get past the first email because I suck at first emails. I know this, I admit this. I ork at getting better at it, but without any feedback, and each woman being different, there is no clear path.

We can help you with emails. I just recommend not taking any of my advice. Ever.

The "being desperate" part is a big issue. It makes you act sloppily and women sense that. In the particular case of the girl from the mechanic shop, maybe the problem was that you waited too long to aske her out. That also puts them off. Both of these I can tell you from experience
since I also had a bunch of rejections, and I was pretty awful at taking them. Maybe I still am, but since I'm married I don't need to find out. So what I can tell you is to take it easy, become friendly with them before asking out. Unless they clearly let you know, then don't drag it out. And don't worry about it. I knew my wife for 10 years, we'd had one awful date that led nowhere back then an awful date again when we started dating.

And yes, Waffles are superior.

Try working on your confidence.

I don't know what you look like, but if you're overweight: lose weight. Now. Few things are as effective confidence boosters as losing weight (speaking from experience here).

If you already have a healthy weight, dress better. It may seem supremely shallow, but good clothes can really highlight your good sides, while simultaneously covering up the bad ones. You'll feel better and as a result, feel more confident (note: better clothes don't necessarily mean more expensive clothes - it's all about the fit).

Do things you can be proud of. Things you're passionate about. Always wanted to climb a mountain? Go climb that mountain. Run a marathon? Get up, train and actually do it. Or maybe raise money for a charity? How do you think you'll feel if you actually succeed in raising $10,000 for your favorite charity?

These things will take time and effort, but you know what? It'll be worth it. If it were easy you'd already have done it, but that doesn't mean you can't still do it. These types of accomplishments build character and confidence, and heck, you might meet someone doing it.

In Reply To #10

And don't stop these things after you get a girl.

In Reply To #11

Well from what you girls always say, one shouldn't stop doing any of the things that helped get the girl in the first place...

You know what? Fuck it. I don't think I did anything majorly wrong this time, and I still feel like I am being punished. I flirted, successfully, I got her number, friends on facebook, asked her out, spoke to her twice on the phone, and when she disappears I get more advice on what I am doing wrong? I am going with the opinion that my biggest problem right now is that there aren't enough single women in this area for me to pick from.

To be fair, the structure of your posts hasn't emphasized this last ordeal over the others (until now), so the responses might not be perfectly tuned to your current mindset. That said, having re-read through the whole thread just now, I agree with you - I don't think you did anything wrong this time. "Waiting too long" to ask her out doesn't seem like it's substantial enough to warrant a month of no response. But then, who knows. Probably only her.

I have friends who sometimes just go "offline" for weeks or months at a time, and don't return calls, texts or emails to entire circles of friends. I have no idea why. I might seldom get a bit of an idea when they do come 'round and I ask them about it, but I've generally just had to set it aside and simply accept that some people are just really different in the head - and there's nothing you can do about it.



And while that may not be a problem with you, it is still a problem you have, and so open to advice. I didn't meet anyone suitable until I took some very big steps to turn my life around 4 years ago. I went out and met many new people, went to places I had never been before, and became involved in groups with new friends I never thought I'd make. Perhaps the changes you need to make go beyond "dating" and are about opening up new horizons.

DarkFlow's point on this has merit, though I'm not really coming at it from a self-improvement perspective. Find a cause you're interested in. Join a community group about anything that won't bore you to tears. Regularly volunteer for a charity. Be willing to do all of the above even if it means driving for an hour or more from home a couple of times a week. You will meet new people and new opportunities will arise, and that's the key thing. That's what got me to where I am now. If the sad little me from 5 years ago could see where I am now, he'd be completely stoked and hardly able to believe it. And yet, none of the changes on their own are that incredible.

This. You never know what will happen when you try something new. I met (or reconnected with) my fiance because I was bored one evening and started chatting to her on FB chat for no particular reason.

It's much easier said than done if your confidence is low, but Darkflow's advice is valid, and as has been said, you need to be happy with yourself. Put some work into improving yourself, get your confidence levels higher, get out there and see what happens in a new environment.